August 12, 2026

Chee Cheong Fun

Miri offers many viuarieties of food as it is not only a resort city but a city wtth diverse cultures, with a big expat commybuty. It boasts a popultion of almost 400,000 which alsoo adds too its robust urban life. Food is central to its life line. Bruneians come to do shopping and enjhoy its iofferings of remarkable cuisines which range from indigenous dishes to international foods. Food stalls and restaurants open up every where, in the city centre and in t he residential areas. Food stalls are also availble at roadsides and river sides. one of the nicest dishes from the Cantonese people is the chee cheog fun, which is steamed rice pancakes filled with delicious prawns and chopped meat, served with a lovely sweet sauce. How the Cantonese invented thiis heritage dish is for another blog post. Cheers..

February 25, 2026

Ferry - Labuan - Limbang - Lawas

 



In 1974 I started my teaching career in SMK Limbang. I had completed my degree and diploma of education in 1973. When I asked for a posting to Limbang I had to face a number of education officer in Kuching. It wasn't a difficult request. But still they had to see if there was a "vacancy" or not. Limbang then had only one secondary school. I had to wait for a while, get my marriage certificate and find an officer who could vouch for me.

So when I was given the posting in December, in black and white, my tgeaching life began. I took the small plane from Sibu to Miri. And then from Miri I had to use an even smaller plane, the Norman Britan Island. I might have gotten the name iof  the plane wrong because it was so long ago.

I remember an orientation period of my first nonth in Limbang. The shops sold very few necessities. And we  teachers managed to find a friendly towkay to let us purchase necessities on credit. I had my first 555 book. And IOU book.


Then my colleagues and I enjoyed the ferry crossing to Labuan where we could buy liquor, chocolates. My friend chucjled and said, "I am turning you all into smugglers!!" It was a kind of special experience for young starry eyed teachers. We ate our ice cream and stayed the night in Labuan.

The ferry boat was not foreign to me as there were


January 7, 2026

 The Chow Chai Hung Ngang is now a well known Foochow delicacy in Miri, In 1970's if a customer asked for CCHN the waitress or towkay neo would have laughed outright,


Times have changed. I am glad after 30 years of living in Miri, a lot of changes can be seen.

The indigenous people are frequenting Chinese non hall kopitiam., different dialectice groups of Chinese seem to love CCHN for example. There is a lot of tolerance for different foods amongst the divrse culture. This is really good.




And lots of people are also reading up materials to understand the historical backgrounds of food, including ways to prepare the authentic food.


What a wonderful world!!

December 30, 2025

Yellow Tumerica Flavoured Tofu in Miri

 Tumeric or yellow ginger is a good colouring to use to collour tofu. It is also a good colour, as yellow means wealth and prosperity/


When Chinese New Year arrives many Chinese gates and walls are painted yellow.


One of the colours to help make tofu fragrant is tumeric yellow, the colour derives from pounding yellow tumeric with mortar or pestle and rubbing the juice into the solidifiying tofu. It also gives the tofu a good taste

November 13, 2025

A White Apek Single would do...


 Peter Wong a retired teacher and education office now residing in Kuching sent this photo to me.


What he has on was called Ah Pek Shirt (actually a singlet) which was considered a clothing which coud be worn in the public any time in those days.

Such a singlet was even good enough to visit the Resident in the government office. It was worn by wharf labourers, trishaw drivers and boat men throughout Sarawak. No one would have felt under dressed in those days,

It was also worn by basketballers and wolley ballers. 

Great memories,

November 10, 2025

Memories of Grandmother

 In the last 8 yers of mny maternal grandmother's life she was blind. her blindness was caused by glaucoma and in those days medical facilities were not like today's. the Sibu hospital could not removed the glaucoma as she was deemed too old to have the surgety. Besides Sibu was not even blessed by a good specialist .

Grandma lived with her handicapp and her children and grandchildren adjusted to her plight.

Today I share with you my grandmother's love for Quaker Oats.

One of her favourite meals, without disturbing uncles or aunties in the old house in Nang Chong was Quaker Oats. Something she could make on her own. Third Aunt gave her a flask of hot water, spoon, bowl, cup etc and she felt her way around in her life of darkness,

She would ask Third Aunty to get someone to buy Quaker Oats of Old Man Oats when she felt that her tin was half empty.

It would be my mum or Aunty Yung or a good nephew who would sed a tin of Quaker Oats down river. Down river was a term we learned from the Colonial days. Up river means the parts of the Rajang which was above Sibu.

Grandma would be circulated perhaps 2 months each time Third Uncle moved her. First Uncle lived in Pigeon Road Sibu, When she was with First Uncle my mother and Aunty Yung would visit morre often bringing food to the family and grandma. First Uncle was then a retired barber and wharf labourer. Life with him was not too bad as his children were humble and loving. First Uncle would piggy back grandma when she wanted to visit a doctor likke Dr., Ding Siew Hua.

In those days not many old people had wheel chairs. It was always a son who could piggy back his mother. Praise God for First Uncle.

Second Uncle was working in the logging camp so he was unable to host grandma. Second Aunty as the daughter in law would welcome grandma once in a while. She would cook chicken soup or make beef soup to send to grandma . She was busy too looking after her own grand children.

Third Uncle was the breadwinner who put food on the table, in the house at Nang Chong, downriver, not far from Bawang Assan.

Observing the goings on in those days I took in the great understanding of family connectivity and love.

An old mother with visual impairment needs the love and kindness of all family members.



Grandma was absoultely humble and loveable. Her sons and daughters rallied around her to provide most of the things she needed. She also had one good son in law to depend on,.

She longed to see her fourth son Lau Pang Teck who was in China. 4th Uncle Pang Teck left Sibu in 1954 to study in Beijing Univeristy. But he was actually scammed. He did work with machinery but he never obtain his engineering degree. He got married and had a son who later commuunicated with the family. He was sponsored two trips to visit Sibu happily. Uncle named him dragon. But he never saw his grandma. 

At times when I looked at grandma stiring her Quaker Oats breakfast I believe she was really thinking about her sons and daughters . She missed them in her quiet ways. And I listened to her and put many of her stories in my own memory bank.

She passed away in 1985. 


October 25, 2025

Mum's 99th Birthday in Heaven

 
Today is my mother's 99th birtthday. She passed away in 2020.

When she was alive for her own birthday she would make a simple preparation.

Early in the morning she would take out her well dried longevity noodles from the tin. The noodles looked so tempting because they were while neat rolls of goodness. Even a whiff of the well dried wheat threads would get you hungry for a good soup noodle.

then she would boil her freshly slaughtered chicken. Mum never wasted her money to get the market lady to dress her chicken. She must do the slaughtering herself until she was very advanced in her age.

Her chicken soup was always with a few dried shitake mushrooms and hardboiled eggs.

We would have brunch and she would therefore pass a year of her life's calendar.


October 17, 2025

Bundles of Soh Mien

 

My Ngie Mah was best in drying soh mien in the sun.

Our neighbour in Brooke Drive, the Ting family were soh mien makers. So they would always give us the best soh mien (in 5 katis or 10 katis in those days) tied with a red thread per set.

When we took the soh mien home on the day ngie mah came to visit she would carefully made little "zi" or bundles like in the photo to dry in the huge bamboo tray meant for drying food!!

Grandma's handiwork was perfect, each one would be exactly the same size. She would tell us that the cook would easily and evenly cook the soh mien in the boiling water and no one would complain of undercooked soh mien. Or no one would complain that her share was a smaller amount.

Having equal sizes of soh mien would also mean that drying them was easier, without finding out any one bundle being under sunned!!

Grandma was always a good and happy worker.

How we loved her handiwork.

October 2, 2025

The Jetties along the Igan

 Several jetties are found on the left bank of the Igan. Before the Igan Bridge was built, ferries brought people and motor cycles from Sg. Bidut, Penasu and Bawan Assan, Ensurai, cross the Igan river to Sibu.

Many years ago, when my family wanted to visit relatives in Sg. Bidut, we had to make an appointment with them so that they could pick us up from Kampong Nangka. Today, from Kampong Nangka we can take a fast ferry to several jetties . It is very convenient. The ferries have been in use for many decades.


This is a photo of a big jetty. a double decker motor launch berths at its side to rest for the night.



This is a smaller jetty witgh a ferry on the Igan River. Ferries are the life lines of the people who live along the Igan River. They have to go to work in sibu, earn a living and raise families. Some schools are also built along the Igan River to serve the kampongs. Traditional rice farming and fishing are still being carried out along the river.

September 19, 2025

Beladin : Life in a Fishig Village

 

My cousin a Chinese school teacher used to teach in Beladin for may years. She was happy to be there and brought up her kids well.

A long time ago teachers and pupils had to travel for small coastal boats to reach Beladin. they would walk in the mud and then wash off the mud at the jetty.


Life in the 1970's was simple and people were happy to have food on the table and a bed a sleep on.

They were happy to be able to send their kids to school. Teachers were so well respected.


May God bless the people of Beladin. My cousin is now retired and living in Kuching. She has good memories of teaching in Beladin.


July 17, 2025

Mrs. JB Chong

 As a child I was often brought by my father to see his beloved and only aunt, Mrs. JB Chong in Queensway. 

He would drive his jeep to see her and she would reward him with some rambutans from her trees in the garden, I cannot now remember whether my father ever brought Ikan bertutu (marble goby) from his fish traps laid in the streams behind our house in Brooke Drive. But I do remember my father would pass messasges to her from my grandfather. My grandfather and Mrs. JB Chong were related  by marraige. My grandmother Chong was Mrs. Chong's sister in law.

When it comes to relations many people cannot follow the intricate connections and most young people avoid talking about in laws and relatives.


Some just shrug off and say better not to know.


But from a young age I was interested in cultural relationships and social ties. I find them most interesting and I do have a good memory for most cultural things. I have no problem remembering dates, events and names of people in history. Today I find it harder to remember figures and telephone numbers especially.



Now here I remember Mrs. JB Chong's kebayas, the embroidery and her precious photos. I remember the lay out of her garden which she probably replicated from some Singapore gardens she remembered.

I remember her scents and her powder and the way she combed her her in a nice bun or sangol. She never failed to tell us about her Peranakan history and the way food should be cooked. but later in life, she allowed her daughter in law, my aunt Meng toh to do the cooking without her supervision.


We all loved aunt Meng Toh to bits. Uncle Chung Sing her husband and first born of Mrs. JB Chong was a very very taciturn and talented pianist.


Mrs. JB or Ging Boh (Grand Aunt) was fond of entertaining visitors and relatives. According to my mother one of the best parties she ever saw was her birthday. She had her birthday photo taken and she gave that photo to every one dear to her. My father received one and kept in his album !!


My grandfather called my father BOHYINg (Poh King, his birth name) but my fatheer was DAI Gong to Grand Aunt . Dai Gong was his school name. In those days most Foochows had two names.

July 3, 2025

Aunty Pick and Mrs. Hoover

 


My grandfather Tiong Kung Ping was very adamant to have all his children and especially the daughters well educated.

From a very young age the daughters were sent to board with Mrs. Hoover who ran a good Methodist Yuk Ing Girls' School in Sibu. 

According to my Aunt Pick who was No. 8 daughter grandfather had made sure that Mrs. Hoover would take his daughters . So Aunt Lily (no 1) to Aunt Carrie (no. 11) all were boarders while Grandfather moved the family from Sg Merah to Bukit Lan, from the rubber mill of Bukit Lan he moved his family to Binatang where he co founded Binatang Foochow Settlement with Rev Yao shiao Khing and Ling Ming Lok. From Binatang he moved his family to Pulau Kerto and then back to Sungei Merah. through out all those years he made sure that his children did not interrupt their educational pursuits.

Out of his 11 daughters 6 became teachers like Mrs. Hoover!!

Aunt Pick remembers Mrs. Hoover as a very strict disciplinarian.


One day when she was just 11 years old Mrs. Hoover asked her to get something from the shop. But after running to the shop Aunt Pick forgot what she had to buy because she was so scared! So she sat at the steps of the Masland Church trying to recover herself and calm down her fears of Mrs. Hoover.

Luckily 7th aunt came along who remembered what she had to get and the two sisters went to the shop to complete their mission.


Aunt Pick said that her fear of Mrs. Hoover never lessened but as she grew older she started to appreciate what a wonderful mother like figure Mrs. Hoover was. In later years Mrs. Hoover lived in Perth and my aunt Pick went to visit her often when she furthered her studies in Australia.

Love must be tough.

June 5, 2025

My mother Lau Hung Chuo

 



Well known proflific Chinese writer Yong Gien Huong of Sibu wrote a book, "Their 3 Years and 8 Months" depicting oral stories of women who suffered and lived through the Japanese Occupation.

It was written in Chinese and funded by the Sarawak Chinese Cultural Association. I was proud to be a part of the publication in some small ways.

My mother's story covered her growing of rice for 3 years, her great harvests as a single young lady planting disguised as a boy. She was able to put rice on the table for her father, brothers and sisters while she and her young sister also subsisted partially on sweet potatoes and sasgo. She feared the arrival of the Japanese soldiers who came and took away precious chickens and ducks. She had to hide her pigs in a pigsty away from the river banks and away from the eyes of the Japanese soldiers.

While making sure that they had food on the table she also saw how her ffather, my grandfather, suffered from a herniated intestine and slowly succumbed to the great pain and died in 1944 just months before the Japanese surrender. He was unable to receive any surgery due of the difficulties of those days. It must have been a very painful slow death for him.

Born in 1926 my mother was the breadwinner so to speak for the family during the Japanese Period. She was 15 years old but she was according to her as strong as an ox and working like a man. She was never scared of hardwork. She looked after  3 younger siblings, her own father, and the family of her oldest brother, Pang Ping.

My grandmother was stranded in China from 1938 to 1945 with my second Uncle and 3rd Aunt.

My second Aunt, was married and living in Sarikei, while my eldest aunt was in Sarikei. Both were married and having family and children during those difficult days.

June 4, 2025

Building Bridges - Hawaii Beach, Bakam.

 


“Learn to when to build bridges

When people or life disappoints you it's normal to build a wall and not allow anyone to climb it.
When people get hurt they need to Learn how to build a bridge and not walls.
In reality you should be building new bridges when life disappoints you build bridges to connect with like-minded others to connect with you.
If you but a wall you do not allow yourself to connect with others.”
― Charles E Hudson



we often visited Hawaii Beach along Bakam Road over the years. I was impressed by the Goh family who has been living her for more than 100 years.
Their  grandfather came as a trader but later decided to set up shop on a piece of land he acquired on the sand spit. He then built a good Malay house with the help of Malay builders. This was the Goh family house as well as shop which served the community of Kedayan, Melanau and Malay fishermen well. Later a few Chinese families moved here to avoid the Japanese onslought.

Today there are 6 kampongs in this area each with their own head man.

The Grandfather Goh beuilt the first wooden bridge across the River Naan. Here is a photo from the bank of the spit.

Mr Stephen Goh said people don't realize how convenient it is to have a bridge. However to him this social contribution is from the heart of the Goh family. It is for everyone's convenience. Happy to think like that.

May God bless the Goh family.

May 28, 2025

Foochow Midwife Lau Fong Fei

 

My mum and I would always be grateful to my aunt Lau Fong Fei who looked after my four precious pregnancies. She gave good advice and counselling and mum was well rest assured.

Mum lost a sister due to poor medical support and as a result of that trauma my mother would not, if possible be hospitalized., She was only once warded in a hospital and that was three days before she passed away. She asked to return home where she passed away very peacefully on 31 August 2020.

Mum always reminded me to pay tribute to Aunt Fong Fei.



During National Nurses' Week I would like to thank my aunt Lau Fong Fei for delivering two of my babies in Sibu.
It is with great sadness when I read the announcement of my aunt Lau Fong Fei's passing. She was the beloved cousin of my late mum Lau Hung chuo, Lau Hung Hee (almost the same name), Lau Hung Ding, Lau Hung Toh, and Lau Hung Yung (all daughters of Lau Kah Jui). Aunt Fong Fei's sisters have Phoenix as their middle name whereas my mother and her siblings and cousins have Hung or Rainbow as their middle name. Same sound but different Chinese character.
Aunt Fong fei was a young girl during the Japanese Occupation and she was a lively girl who was determined to educate herself. She became one of the first western trained midwives in Sibu. She was also one of the first Foochow girls in those days to marry a Hokkien man, Wee Ho Soon. (In those days it was not the thing to do according to our elders) But Uncle Wee was a capable man. I do stand corrected if I am wrong about this.
In the early days when we moved to Sibu, I was always happy to meet her. I enjoyed listening to her talking with my mum,exchanging news and normal concerns and a few humurous stories. They loved a chuckle or two even though I knew already at that age how much the two ladies had suffered during the Japanese Occupation. Both had gone without much food so that the uounger siblings could have more. The two ladies had plenty to talk about .
In those days cousins were as good as siblings. they shared common stories and news and got along as if they were all in one household. there was so much brotherly and sisterly love among them.
She was never too busy to have a conversation with relatives. That was my impression of her. She was the kind of person I would later use as an example of a lady with good PR and empathies.
She started her Lau Fong Fei Maternity Clinic in Hardin Walk and delivered many babies. The Lau King Howe Hospital had less than 100 beds and probably less then 15 beds for its maternity ward. In the 1960's there was a baby boom and maternity clinics sprang up. Her investment was not only financially timely but socially suitable. She was known as a midwife who saved many mothers and babies because of her skills.
Aunt Fong Fei was a caring woman, who listened to young mothers and even gave counselling to women who had too many children or no children.
I remember my first baby was delivered by her and she said such comforting words because my baby was 25 days over due. It was a safe delivery after a 2 day labour and 4 false alarms in May. She was born on May 25th. But my late mother trusted her and would not have me admitted into any hospital.
She also delivered my 3rd daughter with such skill that I hardly felt any pain. My two other babies were born in Lau King Howe Hospital because I was admitted by the doctors checking my pre -natal conditions.
I end up having all children born in Sibu but I must say Aunt Fong Fei was truly the kind of midwife you would like to have when your child wanted to see the world for the first time.
She would always be by your side in the labour room and her predictions were so accurate!! All mothers who had their babies delivered at her clinic would never find themselves in dire straits as she was so kind in collecting their fees. At times I heard she even gave some poor mothers minimum charges. (to day deliveries cost a leg and an arm.)

She was truly my 5 star midwife! She made delivery of a baby a festive episode of a new mother's life. It was a moment to treasure, new baby, new mother and midwife who saw that all was fine.
Deepest condolences to the family members.
We have gone through an era where women like Aunt Fong Fei had given their utmost to serve the people regardless of race, religion and creed. She was a gentle angel for women in their greatest need - the birth of a new life.
May her soul rest in peace. Till we meet again at Jesus' feet.

May 27, 2025

Great Grandfather Tiong King Kee

 I am slowly building a time line on my Great Grandfather's life.

1863 - born in Wun Chieh Minqing.
1870's baptised by foreign Methodist missionary (Rev Nathan Sites)
1886 - eldest son Tiong Kung Ping born
1901 - Wong Nai Siong campaigned for Foochow transmigration to Sarawak.
1902 Tiong.Kung Ping sailed for Sarawak.
1905? Great grandfather came to Sibu
1909 - Eldest son Tiong kung Ping married Chong Ching Soon
1910 - first grandson.chang ta kang born.
1912 ‐ 2nd grandson Tiong Siu.King born
1914- lst granddaughter born
Lily Chang Lee Sieng
1916‐ 3rd grandson Tiong Tai King born
1917 - daughter Yuk Ging born in Sibu.
1918 - Phyllis Chang Nguk Sieng born
2nd grand daughter
1919- returned to Fujian to add names of 2 grandsons to the family genealogy book.
1920 - Chang Chuo Sieng,third grand daughter born
1922 - opening of Binatang.
1922- Maggie Chang Ing Sieng born
4th grand daughter
1923 - Grace Chang Ging Sieng born. 5th grand daughter.
Est Mee Ann Rice and Sawmill
1926 - 4th grandson Chang Pan King born.
1928 - sibu big fire. Great grandfather was one of the work supervisors appointed to rebuild Sibu.
1930 7th grand daughter Tiong Chiew Sieng born.
1932 - 5th grandson Tiong Tai Sui born.
1932- 2 Grandsons went to Shanghai to study
1936 - family saddened by Rev Hoover's death.
- daughter yuk ging married Chiu Chuang Song , nephew of Dr Chiu Nai Ding
1937 - Ta kang graduated from Yenching University.
1938 - grandson Chiu koh Siong born . From yuk ging.
1939 ‐ Yuk Ging and family left for China.
1941 - Japanese invaded Sarawak
1942 - Ta kang arrested and remanded by Kempetai for 10 days in Sibu. Mr Lu Kie Choon wrote a letter of petition in Japanese to help release him. Grandfather was hit in the head by a Japanese soldier.
1944 - died

May 24, 2025

DISAPPEARING SOCIAL FEATURE : ULU DRESSERS

 

Treatment in longhouses given by a trained dresser.


 Since 1956 the Baram was served by quite a number of specially trained Ulu Dressers, men who were sent to Kuching General Hospital to be trained to dress wounds, treat simple ailments and travel in the Ulu to provide medicines. they were quite indispensible in the Medical Service of that time.

However after more than 20 years many of the old dressers had passed away and the Federal Government of Malaysia changed the delivery system. Hospital Assistants were trained up with better qualifications.

Today  we only have some stories of these helpful dressers of olden days. Hopefully some documentation can be done.



May 10, 2025

A snippet : My Father's Kindness

 A Snippet: God's Grace and Father's Kindness Repaid.

My father employed several Kayan and Iban men in his quarry. The men had to be strong to manually break some of the rocks using a heavy hammer
One of the Iban men was an ex TB patient but he really needed the job. My father was very understanding and made him the man in charge of the rock "breaking" machinery. A lorry would tip the blasted rocks into the machinery and he would operate the machine to break them into smaller pieces
Most of the rocks were sold to the government for road construction. The men who worked in the quarry were paid decent salaries and "Suin" was happy to collect his every fortnight. After pay day he would cycle home to Sg. TEKU.
MY FATHER LET him sleep in the office and use his kitchen whereas the other workers had their own quarters. Suin always felt good working for.my father. Very often my father would give him extra when he brought bamboo shoots and fruits to sell to the other workers.
Not long after my father passed away my.mother met him in Sg. MERAH. AND HE ASKED my mother if she needed anything.




We did need bamboo poles for drying clothes.mum did not think.much of her request. She had said she would pick up the bamboo poles from Sg. MERAH
She also thought Suin would just not remember THE REQUEST.
a month later Suin came with 4 bamboo poles tied together to our house on a bicycle. He was like an acrobat with 4 long.bamboo poles on his shoulders.
He had cycled all the way from Sg. TEKU WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN LIKE 8 MILES
We will never forget his kindness
MUM GAVE HIM rm 20 which he refused to accept
Mum used the 4 bamboo poles to dry our clothes for more than 15 years. They really lasted a long time.
(Ching Ming - remembering kindness of loved ones who have passed on..)

April 2, 2025

Nang Chong Stories : Match making

 A 19 years old Nang Chong girl was asked to consider a match proposed by a match maker who came from the opposite bank of the Rajang River. the Match Maker was very articulate and told the family all the good points about the young man who was hard working, honest and with a good set of parents.

Definitely the parents would not abuse the daughter in law.

Foochow Fish Ball SOUP


On a fixed day the girl and her mother went to sibu to sit in Lok Tien Yong coffee shop to wait for the match maker who ordered a bowl of fish balls for the girl and a plate of kampua for the mother.

The fish ball soup and the girl was to be viewed by the intended groom and his family from another table which was not known to the girl and her mother. After watching her for several minutes the young man was satified with what he saw and he and his mother left the coffee shop.

A week later the young man brought some gifts to see the Nang Chong girl as he was quite happy with what he saw. He and the match maker made a proposal to the girl's mohter. In fact the girl was in Sibu learning dress making.

In that way an engagement was announced the gril's mother accepted the gold ring as a symbol of engagement and the girl cannot refuse. Did the girl ever regret marrying the boy? No she was just happy and in turn she became a very happy old lady because her husband and his family treated her very well throughout her life.

You might be interested to know more about the marriage etc. Yes they were married and tjeu were well matched. The grateful husband always told people that his marriage was made in heaven. No regrets.

March 12, 2025

60th Birthday : Tiong King Kee

 

One of the most important birthdays for the Chinese is the 60th birthday. That birthday marks the completion of one round of the zodiac cycle i.e. 60 years.

This birthday usually calls for a family portrait and by then the celebrant would probably already have 3 geneerations in his family.



This family portrait of my Great GRandfather Tiong King Kee is a very good photographic tribute to him and our family in Sg Merah, Sibu. The background was our family rubber garden, started in the early 1900's.

Chee Cheong Fun

Miri offers many viuarieties of food as it is not only a resort city but a city wtth diverse cultures, with a big expat commybuty. It boas...